Interview with prominent 88 Generation Students Leader Ko Ko Gyi in Maung Daw Township,Rakhine State.

Won Thar Nu

Ko Ko Gyi

 

Question: Can you share the experiences you gained during the recent trip to Rakhine state by 88 Generation Student Leaders?
Answer: Well when we visited the other parts of Myanmar, there is a sense of family reunion; usually in these occasions there is joy and hope. However in this trip to Rakhine , what we saw, what we experienced are not remotely similar to other trips. We felt heartbroken for the locals; moreover we noticed threats to our nation. The feelings are overwhelming for this trip.

Question: Can you elaborate more on these threats you just mentioned to our nation Mr. Ko Ko Gyi?
Answer: While we visited the town of Sittwe, even in the town in broad daylight, the armed patrols have to guard the railway to prevent any potential sabotages, such kind of situation is totally unacceptable. And again when we visited the townships of Buthidaung and Maungdaw, in these townships, the native Rakhines are of minority and we saw a huge number of Bengali villages along the road. I talked to a Rakhine man who couldn’t control his tears while describing about the situation there, and seeing this really touched my heart. He explained that they cannot stand the threat that they would be forced to flee from their native land. Therefore, despite all the hardships they are facing, they are striving to stand firm in their land. Therefore, from my opinion, this(Rakhine) issue is not a trivial matter, and must be take into serious consideration.

Question: Mr. Ko Ko Gyi, so during your trip, did you meet the natives who practices Islam such as the Kamans?
Answer: I visited to Muslim refugees as well. At the village of Thet Kal Pyin, we had a chance to talk to the locals there. Well, I do not regard this as a religious conflict. Of cos it has been a long-standing problem; this isn’t a problem that exists only recently. For decades, the illegal immigrants have been flowing into Myanmar, moreover the corruption of the Myanmarese officials made these matters worse. Another matter to note is the rate these Bengalis give birth, the rate of giving birth is massive and overtime the local Rakhines feel threaten by the sky-rocketed birthrate of these Bengalis. With these birthrates, it’s not only the Rakhines who feel threaten; when I visited the Bengali villages the living conditions are saddening as well. I told our belief to them that there should be equal citizen rights, however on the other hand, together with citizen right, there are responsibilities of the citizens, and importance of living in harmony with other citizens. Another issue is that whether a person is our nation’s citizen or not, from humanitarian view point, we are going to help those who are suffering, that’s one issue. However, on the other hand, in terms of granting citizenship to them, we would have to examine this matter with great care since this is a matter of national security.

Question: Just now in your answer, you talked about the sky-rocketed birthrates of these Bengalis. However, Rohingya organizations from overseas have been claiming that there are restrictions on childbirth for the Rohingyas in Rakhine state, so how would you like to respond to these claims?
Answer: There are a lot issues to take into consideration concerning with Rohingyas. I ask these native Muslims what race do they belong to, and they answered that they are Bengalis. So, what’s obvious is that these people themselves regard them as Bengalis. On the other hand, when I visited the townships of Buthidaung & Maungdaw, from what I learnt 97% of the population is the Bengalis. I visited to the border gate between Myanmar and Bangladesh, there are people visiting across border. So in the town of Sittwe, the person that I talked to himself is a guest-citizen of Myanmar. Therefore, if the officials were to make proper census about the citizens, I expect to see lots of illegal immigrants. And to do so, we would need lots of efforts to educate the locals and their cooperation.

Question: Recently, when President U Thein Sein met UNHCR he said since these Bengalis are illegal immigrants from neighboring country, Myanmar will not accept them but to operate refugee camps, and till (if any) other countries who are willing to take them would do so. So what’s your view on this stance?
Answer: In every nation, the laws of citizenship and issues related to national security are set in accordance with the individual needs and unique nature of each country; these requirements are hardly the same between two different countries. So that is the same for our nation as well, we would have to issue laws in accordance with the requirements of our nation.

Question: The UNHCR replied on President U Thein Sein’s proposal that this is an internal affair of Myanmar and the current situation does not comply with UNHCR’s regulations and thus cannot accept the president’s proposal. How would you like to say on this matter, Mr. Ko Ko Gyi?
Answer: In concerning with Myanmar, these officials from international organizations tend to conclude their decision based on the limited information that they have knowledge of. And when these limited things that they know are not relevant to the real situations happening in our nation, it could seriously hurt the local’s emotions and opinions on them. For instance, in the refugee camps that I visited, I saw signs which show that they do not welcome UN & INGOs. So, the officials from these organizations would need to take serious consideration on how do the locals view them.

TS-Thant Zin

History Behind Arakan State Conflict

Irrawaddy

A protest outside the BBC headquarters in Rangoon. (Photo: The Irrawaddy)

Arakan history expert Dr. Jacques P. Leider gives an exclusive interview to The Irrawaddy in light of the recent sectarian strife in western Burma. Leider has been conducting research as well as contributing articles to academic journals on Arakan State for more than two decades. He has worked with SEAMEO-CHAT, the regional center for history and tradition in Rangoon, and is currently head of the French School of Asian Studies in Chiang Mai, Thailand.
 
Question: What is the meaning of “Rohingya?”

Answer: [The term Rohingya] appeared for the first time at the end of the 18th century in the report of an Englishman who went to the Chittagong area, the Rakhine [Arakan] area. His name was Francis Buchanan-Hamilton. He was a medical doctor [and this term appeared] in one of the papers that was published by him. Now when we talk about scientific explanations and etymology of the word, it does not say anything about politics. You use this term for yourself as a political label to give yourself identity in the 20th century. Now how is this term used since the 1950s? It is clear that people who use it want to give this identity to the community that live there.

Q: What about the history of the Muslim community in Arakan State?

A: Everywhere in Southeast Asia—such as Thailand, Indonesia and everywhere—you find Muslim communities. Islam has been growing in other areas where it did not exist before the 15th century in Indonesia, Malaysia and so on. You also have, it is not surprising, a Muslim community in Myanmar. [We know that] in the 15th century you have an emerging Muslim community there. The second part of the Muslim community there belongs to the colonial period, when many people from Bengal and that area came to settle in Rakhine.

Q: What is the situation on the ground between Arakanese Buddhists and Rohingya Muslims?

A: This is a very difficult question to answer for a foreigner who can only go to places in Rakhine where it is acceptable. I will not call the Rakhine Buddhist racist towards Muslims. There seem to be expression; the emotional reaction is extremely strong. Let me put it diplomatically like this—a very strong emotional reaction.

Q: What are the roots of this reaction?

A: Well, I think from historical point of view, when you look at the situation of Muslims in Rakhine, in Burma, one big difference is that the Muslims in Rakhine have settled on the ground, they were farmers. They have been farmers since the pre-colonial period because Rakhine kings were deporting people from Bengal and bringing them to Rakhine and settling them. We know from a source in the 17th century that there were villages where there were only Muslims. They have been settled there by the Rakhine kings. The English stopped Indian immigration during the colonial period. Because there was no border there, so you figure out the people come and go from Bengal to Rakhine. Their demographic growth was tremendous. The Rakhine back in the 1920s, the Buddhist Rakhine, were feeling very awkward about this.

Q: Do you agree with observers who say there is a third force behind the conflict?

A: There is no reason to look for a third force to explain [the conflict], to describe it and to talk about solutions. It is absolutely clear that in the context where Arakan is, you have a very particular situation which you do not have in other so-called minority areas. In Karen, Kachin or Chin, we’re normally talking about the majority Myanmar who confront the local minority group, which is actually a majority of that area. But here you have three involved—you have Rakhine Buddhist, you have Muslim on the other hand and then you have the government. When you have three, it is always easy to have two against one. Now Muslims would argue they are Rakhine Buddhist and Myanmar Buddhist who play against us. It’s always easy to argue that.

Q: So what is the underlying reason behind the conflict? 

A: I think that on the land that exists there, there are increasing numbers of people. Rakhine Buddhists have been seeing that there are Muslims there. The Muslims who are living in Rakhine, the population has been growing. The question is how much have they been growing. Apparently, it seems that they are growing faster. There is a feeling that they are growing; that they are there and there is this kind of resentment that these people are there and nobody is tackling the Muslims present there. All these resentments, all these feelings, have been there for a long time. Sheer violence is used to say that we have situation that we cannot bear anymore.

Q: Would you say it is not a racial issue?

A: No, Rohingya use “racist Buddhists” and the other side will use that. There has been violence, there are a number of other words and we should be sensitive about the use of these words. Now when somebody comes to use the word “genocide” against Muslims, that is also way beyond anything that matches with reality.  I think “hate” is okay as the term you can use as kind of a common word. But to use “racism” always supposes a kind of ideology. I don’t see among Buddhists this kind of ideology. It’s kind of dislike. You have xenophobia, you have ranges of other words you can use to describe more correctly and more justly what we see.

Q: Is the international media mistaken when they use phrases like “genocide of the Rohingya?”

A: Yes, a lot. Journalists have to focus more on diversifying their sources of documentation. I agree it may not be easy. I think there is enormous responsibility on media in Myanmar now that is opening up. Myanmar writers, Myanmar ethnicities take a responsible stand on this. It will not help if they take sides. But you need to be critical and self-critical.

Q: What is the best way forward to resolve the conflict?

A: I would probably say people should sit down and say what they want where there are problems. They want to have peaceful life, they want to have a happy life and see a future for their children. You see other people have what you don’t have. In the other community, in the best of their mind, they realize that the other people will not disappear—like it or not, they are not going to disappear. They need to find one way or another to live together. There are many issues that people who are living there, whatever religion, could share. They will confront their own interest and future for the development of Rakhine State, for the people who live there. If they could work together, they could be more efficient instead of fighting together.

Q: Are the Rohingya an ethnic group of Burma?

A: My answer is that Rohingya is not an ethnic concept. Okay, they can stand up and say we are an ethnic group inside Myanmar. But I think that is not the best way. When you argue we are Muslims and we have been living in Rakhine for several generations, nobody can deny it. For me, Rohingya is the term, which is an old word that has been claimed as above all as a political label after the independence of Myanmar. For the moment, I do not see that all the people there readily submit to one and a single label. When I was in Bangladesh, people pointed out Muslims to me who originally lived in Rakhine. They have now moved to Bangladesh and when you ask them, “are you Rohingya coming from Rakhine?” they say, “no, we are Muslims who live in Rakhine, we do not take for us the label Rohingya.”

Interview with some school teachers who barely survived and witnessed Rakhine Massacre

by Kyaw H. Aung on Sunday, 24 June 2012 at 03:57 ·

The following conversation is recorded on Saturday (June 9) a day after the public school teachers escaped from mass killing and burning committed by Bengali (so called Rohingya).



Teacher Daw Aye Su Thi


An interviewer: Was the house torched first or was Sayargyee (School Principal) killed in his house?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: No.  Bengali mob started at Buddhist monastery.  Then, there were some shops near the monastery and they set them on fire.  There was another convenient store near a pharmacy.  They continued to torch that down as well.  And the Bengali mob moved to the dormitory where Rakhine teachers live and tried to burn it.  The dormitory was not burnt down as much as they expected.  So they broke into the dorm and stole the properties of the residents.  They continued attacking the local Rakhine residents in the area.  Due to the attack and fire, Rakhine residents fled their village in frenzy.


Saya Shan (Rakhine School Principal) and his wife shouted at each other, “Run, Run, Run, Run away…” as they faced the Bengali mob who were armed with knives, wooden bats, rocks and gasoline bottles.  Saya Shan’s wife was hit on her head with a machete by Bengali males and she ran away from the mob.  Then, the Bengalis demanded Saya Shan in Bengali to surrender his sword.  He said, “No, I can’t.” So, he was beaten and murdered at the scene near the water well at the East side.  After that, Bengalis kept assaulting other local Rakhine residents with their knives, machete, wooden bats and rocks.  They burnt all the motorcycles.  Rakhine villagers ran to the top of the mountain.


An interviewer: How did you survive from Bengali attack?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: I ran toward a mountain near our village to hide with other local Rakhine residents.  As I ran, I heard voices from Bengali mob saying, “We will come back to kill you all after burning the village down.”  While we were hiding on the mountain, a few local residents from our village came to us and said, “Na-Sa-Ka (Burmese Border Force) is here.” They were near the place where Saya Shan was killed.  I think it was around 5:30 or 6 pm.


An interviewer: Which Na-Sa-Ka?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: From Zone 7, Ah-Le-Than-Kyaw village.


An interviewer: What happened after Na-Sa-Ka had arrived?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: When we got back to my village, I saw some of local residents with Na-Sa-Ka at the clinic.  They let us gather at the clinic.  Around 3:15 am, the military cars came.


An interviewer: How many trucks? A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Two trucks. One jeep and one pick-
up truck.


An interviewer: Did they transport you all in them?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Yes. First, they took me to Ah-Le-Than-Kyaw.
On our way to Ah-Lay-Than-Kyaw, we had to cross a bridge which is located near Taing Gyi village.  Bengali destroyed that bridge maliciously in order to stop Rakhine people.  So we had to turn back and go to Maungdaw instead (a township where majority of population is Rohingya/Bangali).


An interviewer: Is that the long bridge near Ah-Le-Than-Kyaw?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Yes. Yes, a long bridge before Taing Gyi village.


An interviewer: When you arrive (at Maundaw), where did you have to stay?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: In Aung-Myay-Baw-Di


An interviewer: We heard Bengalis will start their attack again at 2 PM.

(Indistinct conversation is not clear enough to be translated.)


A interviewer:  Were all villagers able to escape the village?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: I think most of the villagers were able to escape.
Four female teachers, 3 male teachers, one nurse and her dad, and about 14 or 15 other villagers…
About 14 or 15 ran up to the mountain at night and did not know about Na-Sa-Ka soldiers who came to rescue us.  I don’t know what happened to them now.  They might probably cross the jungle and go to Rathedaung township.


A interviewer: Is the monk with you all?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Yes. The monk came along with us.


A interviewer: So only about 150 people were able to escape?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: No. No.  Not that many people (Rakhine) live there.

(Indistinct conversation)


A interviewer: How many houses are there in your village?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: About 100 houses.


A interviewer: Where are you from, teachers?


One said, “I am from Myauk Oo.”
One said, “I am from Min Pya.”
One said, “I am from Sittwe.”
One said, “I am from Kyeintali, Thandway.”
One said, “I am from Gwa.”
(Mrauk Oo, Min Pya, Sittwe, Kyeintali  and Gwa are hundreds of mile away from Maung-daw where they are now.)

(Indistinct conversation)


A interviewer: How many teachers are there in your village?


A Rakhine female teacher from Sittwe: 20 teachers are here (20 teachers Survived and arrived at Maungdaw).
27 teachers in total…  Sayargyee’s wife is in the hospital.


A interviewer: What’s her name?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Daw Soe Khine.  She is also a teacher from our school.  She was assaulted with machete on her head by Bengali mob.  She is originally from Maungdaw area.


As I ran toward the mountain to hide from the attacks, I turned back and saw that some Bengalis, mostly in their teenage and in twenties, were killing Rakhine people.  They first hit with machete.  When they did not die, they keep beating them to death with wooden bat and rock.   While they were killing Rakhine people, Sayargyee (Principal) Shan approached the Bengalis to request them to stop the attacks.  He thought they would listen to him since he has been teaching in the area for about 20 years and they were his students.  But they did not listen to him and unfortunately beat him to death.  Most of the Bengalis who killed Sayargyee Shan are his own students.


All the houses and shops in Rakhine village are burned to ashes.  Only two houses were left in our village.

(Indistinct conversation)


A interviewer: Would you be able to get the Sayargyee’s body?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: His body was left at the scene of the attack.  It was impossible to pick up his body since the place was so dangerous.


A interviewer: Do you think Bengalis might take away his body to prevent further criminal investigation from government officials?


A Rakhine female teacher from Sittwe: They might but we can’t say anything exactly so far.  When military arrived at the area, Bengalis were gone.


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: They can always come back from the back of the village.


On our way to Ah-Le-Than-Kyaw, another Rakhine village called Kha-Yay-Myaing was burned down.  They also burned many other Rakhine villages including Taing-Gyi, Tha-Yay-Kone-Baung, and Moe-Ye.  Rakhine residents from Taing-Gyi and Moe-Ye villages were still missing.  There are some teachers in Taing-Gyi as well.  We heard that Na-Sa-Ka came into Tha-Yay-Kone-Baung because Bengalis were attacking.  At that time, Bengalis moved to Taing-Gyi and burnt the whole village. 

(Indistinct Conversation)


A Rakhine female teacher from Sittwe: No Rakhine village is left there. In Ball-Htee-Kone village, Rakhine children were thrown alive into the fire by Bengali.


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: When they set fire to Rakhine houses, many elderly or disable people could not leave their house fast enough so they were burned alive to death.  There are many sad cases like this in many villages.  Many Rakhine villages are razed by the fire set by Bengali.  A Pu’s dad was cruelly murdered by Bengali. (A Pu is a friend of some teachers who survived.) Her brothers and sisters were stuck in the middle of the attack and were not able to flee away from their village.


Another Rakhine female teacher: Oh my God, was A Pu’s dad brutally killed?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Yeah.  Her mom was assaulted by Bengali as well.
Another person from Nan-Nyo was killed. They killed 4 people (from Nan-Nyo) as far as I knew.”


A interviewer:  Are you going back to the village to teach again after the attack is over?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: One thing I can tell you now is that I am not going back to the area to teach again because all of my students are Bengalis. It is way too risky for my life.  Staying there to teach them is like gardening plants like poison ivy/castor bean plants which will harm you one day.  I don’t care if they fire me for requesting for job transfer.  As far as I know, all teachers are very disappointed and scared to go back to teach them.  I have been devoted my life to the education, development and wellness of Muslim populations in those villages by sacrificing my family life.  Yesterday while I was running to hide on the mountain, I realized that I would be killed by those Bengalis.


A Rakhine female teacher from Sittwe: I am going to request for transfer to Buthetaung (another town of Rakhine State) right way.


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: On the day of attack, I was in my dorm and on the phone with my husband talking about Bengali violence and killings in Rakhine villages.  A male Bengali from short distance from me shouted at me, “come down now…… come down…”  He was aiming his sling shot at me.  I froze and stared at him for a minute.  Then I took off my slippers and ran away from him to the mountain with all my energy.  He stared at me running for a few minutes.  I do not know why he didn’t chase me right way.  Then he and other Bengalis decided to chase me. Luckily, I was far enough from them and able to hide on the mountain.  I would have been killed if I came down of my dorm toward him as he demanded.


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: Before our village was attacked by Bengalis, we have heard of Bengalis riot in other villages. But it was calm. Around 1 P.M, we, teachers, were eating “La-Phat-Thuak” (Geen tea salad) without any worries.  We were laughing and cooking and putting food in our lunch boxes.  All of the sudden, we saw local Muslim crowd in our neighborhood.  We positively thought that the crowd just came from mosque.  But we were not sure. I was joking other teachers, “if there is a problem, the school will be closed and we can go back home to see our family.”  Around 3 P.M, we heard the violent noise from Bengali mob.  At the same time, we heard news about military arrival to town.


A interviewer: You said, the military vehicles came to your village at 3 am to pick you up. When did you arrive at Maungdaw?


A Rakhine female teacher from Kyeintali: At 5 am.


Audio clip of the original interview in Rakhine
English translation done by Ko Myolin Kyaw, U KMS and KHA.

DASSK 's answer about Rohingya at Oslo Peace Forum

Won Thar Nu

www.stamfordadvocate.com

Question about "R o h i n g y a ":

Q: What should it be with regarding with their citizenship? Are they or they are not?

DASSK: I do not know because when you talk about the rohingya, we are not quite sure who you are talking about. As I said there is a problem about who we are referring to. There is someone who say that those people who claim to be rohingya are not the ones who are actually native to Burma. But who are just come over recently from Bangladesh. But, on the other hand, Bangladesh says NO. They don’t want them as refugees. As they are not native to Bangladesh and they come over from Burma. So how do we sort this out? Without “RULE OF LAW”, without proper Immigration Processes, without proper policy, without appropriate implementation of the law. This is why I said the root of all this is “The RULE OF LAW” going back to many decades, not going back just to the crime that is just admitted a couple of months ago.

 

source; Oslo Peace Forum

Nan Khemar Aung

U Hla Saw, the General Secretary of Rakhine Nationalities Development Party comment on UN Secretary General’s Special Advisor on Myanmar

MBN

Q : We have knowledge that UN Secretary General’s Special Advisor on Myanmar Mr. Vijay Nambiar visited the town of Sittwe through Buthidaung and Maungdaw Townships of Rakhine state and head back straight to Yangon. However, during his trip, he did not meet the representatives of ethnic Rakhine. What’s your say on this?

A: I would so much like to talk about this issue. We feel deeply upset about this. There are 3 ministers who represent Rakhine ethnic group, there are Rakhine MPs, there’s the Party which represents Rakhine ethnic group, moreover, at the town of Sittwe, there is a number of gentlemen who are well-respected in the Rakhine community, and in fact, could represent the Rakhine ethnic group. He should, and could meet any of these people. We feel highly upset about Mr. Nambiar’s failure to meet these people despite coming to Rakhine state. That makes us wonder about the stance of UN. There was no press conference either. And that is purely a totally unpleasant situation.

Therefore it makes us wonder the true motives of Mr. Nambia, is he being bias against those of ethnic Rakhine? So, by looking at this event, it’s obvious that there are people who are pulling the strings from behind; otherwise, there is no reason for such a high ranking diplomat like him to dare not to call for a press conference. For an organisation like UN, which is the de-facto representative of world’s democratic societies, such a big failure is a heinous diplomatic mistake.

“This is Messenger Journal, just interviewed U Hla Saw, the General Secretary of Rakhine Nationalities Development Party”

Excerpt from Interview with Dr. Aye Maung by True News Journal

MBN

“The western gate of our country is safeguarded by the lives of our Arakan civilians for decades. However, there are many bribery happening on the side of government. [Bengali Immigrants] bribed the government officials to get what they want [identity cards, release after crimes]. These root events has been happening for centuries.
The main mistake is made by election candidates who wanted to win more votes and hence, they brought in many new Bangali Immigrants into Myanmar. Due to these mistakes Maung Daw is surrendered to Bangali illegal Immigrants.
Our stand is that we won’t give even an inch of our land to those illegal Bangali Terrorist Immigrants. We won’t give up our land, our breeze, our water which are handed to us by our ancestors.” said by Dr. Aye Maung.